tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post2306184012895821913..comments2023-10-24T01:17:35.297-07:00Comments on Etaoin Shrdlu: A caution against the categoricalHowardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08379598516764590842noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-18459164793356747672008-07-27T18:16:00.000-07:002008-07-27T18:16:00.000-07:00> "I'm left wondering why Anna Haynes ...> "I'm left wondering why Anna Haynes "regretfully" weighs in on Howard Weaver's side here. Does she not like our Howard?"<BR/><BR/>(for the record: indeed i do, but as one of the great unwashed, i have divided loyalties and would prefer to weigh in on everyone's side)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-72362134897195716502008-07-27T10:43:00.000-07:002008-07-27T10:43:00.000-07:00Rev. Jim: This *is* my alley. And you're welcome h...Rev. Jim: This *is* my alley. And you're welcome here.<BR/><BR/>Anna Haynes: There is a powerful germ of exactly what I'm worrying about in this nugget: "the creature we're creating is going to need a powerful immune system." Mainstream journalism, for all its manifest faults, does have disciplines and a catechism that contribute to accountability and verification (among many things). We have yetHowardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08379598516764590842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-86157073574423547822008-07-27T08:09:00.000-07:002008-07-27T08:09:00.000-07:00I'm not sure any of these people except Rev Jim ac...I'm not sure any of these people except Rev Jim actually know what a nut graph is.<BR/><BR/>And I'm left wondering why Anna Haynes "regretfully" weighs in on Howard Weaver's side here. Does she not like our Howard? And here I've always found him to be a decent guy myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-50349172064865081092008-07-26T21:19:00.000-07:002008-07-26T21:19:00.000-07:00I must regretfully defend Mr. Weaver here, with re...I must regretfully defend Mr. Weaver here, with regard to noting that alternative-j. boosterism can be problematic.<BR/><BR/>Some of those in the trenches (i.e., bloggers you have never heard of) who are most enthusiastic about citizen journalism are those who most want to dispense with those pesky codes of ethics and obligations to disclose - and who, I have come to surmise, have good financial Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-58745983253087131712008-07-26T21:18:00.000-07:002008-07-26T21:18:00.000-07:00Ok, we regular readers of this are REALLY scratchi...Ok, we regular readers of this are REALLY scratching our heads. What are you all arguing about? How about some context, background? If this is a private argument, go out to the alley. If I were the editor of any of you I'd ask for the nut graph.<BR/><BR/>Oh, by the way, your edging into my territory. Spong's book was interesting aboout 15 years ago, but getting a bit dated. Check out Brian The Rev. James Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03484680361356703398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-3855181895852552872008-07-26T17:47:00.000-07:002008-07-26T17:47:00.000-07:00I've now heard my cue to reread Episcopal bishop J...I've now heard my cue to reread Episcopal bishop John Shelby Sprong's book, _Why Christianity Must Change or Die_.<BR/><BR/>Whether or not the chosen route is evolution or revolution, they're both valid to talk through. The practice of journalism (and hopefully our business model) will be healthier for it. The key (and I think this speaks to your comment, @John Proffitt) is separating the Nathan L. Wallshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13603555231058485125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-7593506088067518062008-07-26T16:05:00.000-07:002008-07-26T16:05:00.000-07:00I read all of you guys, and this posting still has...I read all of you guys, and this posting still has me scratching my head. I'd like to see some evidence that Owens, Rosen or Jarvis are advocating or have advocated sweeping changes that eviscerate the core principles of journalist.<BR/><BR/>My impression is there ARE sweeping recommendations for changes in business models and product sets and even a spectrum of participation levels with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-91520258949097672022008-07-26T13:18:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:18:00.000-07:00Howard Owens,Yes, we are maintaining ethics such a...Howard Owens,<BR/><BR/>Yes, we are maintaining ethics such as fairness, accuracy, completeness. And I have also learned new ethics in this age: the ethic of the link, the ethic of transparancy, the ethic of the swift and open correction. <BR/><BR/>Professionalism? Well, that word means many things to many people. In some quarters, it means quality and pride. But in some quarters, it means a Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634476466031148051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-25140434585978413222008-07-26T13:13:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:13:00.000-07:00Further:Not to speak for my colleagues in this pos...Further:<BR/><BR/>Not to speak for my colleagues in this post but....<BR/><BR/>Howard Owens is, like you, trying to reinvent newspapers so they can survive into the digital age. <BR/><BR/>Jay Rosen has started many very real and nuanced projects to try to reinvent the practice of journalism while maintaining and expanding its values: Off the Bus, New Assignment, Beat Blogging. These are very realUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634476466031148051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-71749755277730941822008-07-26T13:09:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:09:00.000-07:00Howard, while I did not include the word "ethics" ...Howard, while I did not include the word "ethics" in my Twitter, I've certainly argued how important ethics are to a reinvented journalism in my blog. And in Twitter, I certainly very pointedly espoused fairness.<BR/><BR/>Twitter is hard thing to follow some times, and the nuance of the short statements can be lost quickly as the conversation flows.<BR/><BR/>But I had to jump in here and stand upAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-10156863506300309662008-07-26T13:04:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:04:00.000-07:00Howard, In your tweets, you seem not to understand...Howard, <BR/>In your tweets, you seem not to understand why this upsets me so. It's because you are ascribing a view to me that I do not hold. Indeed, I teach journalism because I want to uphold the values you say I want to jettison. Having this falsehood (I'll say in a nonlegal sense, a libel) about me is bad for my professional relations and reputation. You further accuse me of not having Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634476466031148051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-89146150184666243292008-07-26T12:40:00.000-07:002008-07-26T12:40:00.000-07:00I agree with Jeff, I think you're making huge leap...I agree with Jeff, I think you're making huge leap here, and setting up a straw man in the process...<BR/><BR/>- Amy GahranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-40678520798534640862008-07-26T12:34:00.000-07:002008-07-26T12:34:00.000-07:00My post was sparked by specific Twitters this morn...My post was sparked by specific Twitters this morning from Jay and howardowens, which I don't think I've unfairly characterized. (One trouble with Twitter is it's next to impossible to reference its evanescent archives.) I was, however, guilty of the kind of categorical reference I objected to. Funny how many times I find myself doing that :)<BR/><BR/>And hell, I called you all smart and Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08379598516764590842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-84058764564511789612008-07-26T12:25:00.000-07:002008-07-26T12:25:00.000-07:00Thanks for the added note.Thanks for the added note.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634476466031148051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3039863.post-53161318762669434102008-07-26T12:13:00.000-07:002008-07-26T12:13:00.000-07:00Whoa, Howard. Jay is right on Twitter. Show us whe...Whoa, Howard. Jay is right on Twitter. Show us where ANY of us have, in your mischaracterization, that "everything we've learned about value-added information and public service journalism – fairness, ethics, professionalism – ought to be jettisoned." There is no basis for this post and scold: a house with no foundation, an opinion with no facts. <BR/><BR/>And you pick on three people who, indeedUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05634476466031148051noreply@blogger.com